The Copywriting Mistakes Costing You Clients with Simone Robinson

In this episode, I’m joined by Simone Robinson, Founder and CEO of Northern Peak Marketing, for a deep dive into what actually makes copy convert — and why so many businesses struggle to get it right.

With over 12 years of experience in digital marketing and senior leadership roles, Simone has worked on campaigns for 8-figure brands, global exporters, and celebrity clients. She specialises in direct-response copywriting, messaging clarity, and conversion-focused strategy — and she doesn’t hold back in this conversation.

We unpack why most headlines fail to grab attention, what makes people keep reading, and how to move beyond basic “features and benefits” copy to messaging that connects results to emotion. We also talk about common CTA mistakes, how to quickly spot what might be costing you clients in your own copy, and where AI fits into copywriting today — what it can support, and where human insight still matters most.

If you’ve ever felt like your marketing sounds fine… but isn’t converting, this episode will give you clarity, practical insights, and plenty of “aha” moments.

This is a must-listen for business owners who want their words to work harder — and smarter.

Find out more about Northernpeak Marketing here: www.northernpeakmarketing.com

Transcript

Bianca: Welcome to the new school of Marketing podcast. I'm Bianca McKenzie and today we're talking about copywriting mistakes, accosting you clients with Simone Robinson. Simone Robinson is the founder and CEO of Northern Peak Marketing.

With 12 plus years in digital marketing and senior roles. She has worked on campaigns for eight figure brands, global exporters and celebrity clients.

Simone specialises in direct response, copywriting, messaging, clarity and conversion focused strategy.

Welcome to the show.

Simone: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Bianca: I'm so excited to talk copywriting, especially because so much has changed in the last.

Simone: Absolutely.

Bianca: To kick things off, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and how you actually came to specialise in copywriting and messaging?

Simone: Yeah, absolutely.

So, as your wonderful introduction, My name's Simone. I'm a copywriter and marketer and I've been in the space for about 12 years now.

So I actually started in content writing first and ghost writing. So that was early in my career. Um, it was a lot of the longer form content. Your blogs, articles, did a lot of books as well.

Over time that kind of naturally evolved into the more specialised side of writing and the copywriting world, the more conversion focused and direct response stuff. So it was one of the realities of copywriting is, you know, there's not really a formal degree path for it. So people who get into the industry typically get really good at it through things like mentorship and a heck of a lot of testing and trial by fire.

So you study the proven frameworks, you look at the swipe files and you learn what works through a lot of testing. So I was fortunate enough to, you know, work my way into a couple of the large agencies over in the US running the copy and strategy departments.

And it gave me a lot of exposure to sort of that high volume testing and ad budgets and performance driven decision making that really helps to inform you around this space.

So that was largely how I sort of got into it. And then I realized that that was definitely something that I love to do.

I feel like I'm fairly good at it.

And alongside my background in psychology, it kind of complements understanding how People work. So a little bit about how I got into it and it was just a natural segue to keep doing it.

I move further into the marketing space.

Bianca: That's super exciting. And I guess, yes, psychology is a really big part of how people buy.

Simone: Yes. I might not have been cut out necessarily for practicing, but I have a huge respect for the industry and it's helped inform a lot of the marketing decisions that we do.

Bianca: Yeah, I can totally imagine how that would be super, super helpful. What kind of businesses do you mostly work with?

Simone: So over the years I've been very privileged to, like I said, with a bit of an agency background, work across almost every industry and vertical from your very early stage startups through to the larger retail e commerce brands across the world.

But these days I do tend to enjoy working with sort of two groups of businesses.

One of those are businesses in high compliance industries. So your finance, your law, cybersecurity, health, mental health.

Businesses that need to be really careful about what they say, how they say it, and obviously how that aligns with things like Meta, where there's a lot of legislation and rules around what you can and can't say handling those claims.

A little bit about my background in psychology has informed that, but it's also very much informed just by, again, a bit of that trial by fire learning what Meta likes and does not like.

And then the other group I'd say is businesses that operate in a more saturated market. So your coaches, people in fitness, hospitality industries where it's very easy to sound the same as your competitors.

And so a lot of what we will do is sort of go into that and help articulate what makes them different and align that positioning and the messaging work, which becomes super important because different differentiation can be a bit unclear sometimes.

So short answer, we can work with anybody, but typically if messaging is something you feel like is a core struggle for the business, that's where we sort of excel.

Bianca: I love that. And yes, messaging is that one thing that you have to get right.

Simone: I'm a bit biased, but yes.

Bianca: Yeah, pretty much really.

And that's why I really loved when you reached out like to be on the podcast and like you sort of talked about what you, what you specialise in and what you talk about.

Because one of the things that you talk about is like how most headlines fail within the first few seconds.

I don't really want to dive into these.

So why do you think that so many businesses actually struggle to grab attention straight away and, and what needs to happen in Those first, I guess, three seconds for someone to decide, yep, I'm going to keep reading and, you know, and then eventually, hopefully do business with you.

Simone: Absolutely.

It's funny because of the three seconds that you mentioned, and it used to be, oh, you've got 30 seconds, you've got seven seconds. And it's just our attention spans are shrinking collectively as a society more and more.

And so I think three seconds is maybe even generous for some formats. Right. We have such a short period of time.

And so, yes, a headline or your hook being impactful is critical because if you. You don't really have time to build up to something people want to engage in.

So one of the things that I'd say is a very important principle is that the purpose of the line of copy someone is reading right now is to get them to read the next one, which we put a lot of weight sometimes on every line having to be like, the headline has to convert. And that's great, but it really just needs to get people to the next step.

Your ad needs to get people to click. Your landing page needs to get people to keep reading to the call to action.

And so I would say that the job of the headline is to earn attention more than anything else.

And things that kind of stop that from working is if the headline's talking a little bit too much about the business instead of the reader, if it's generic or if it's vague, if you try to over explain absolutely everything that the landing page is supposed to do versus just trying to generate interest.

And so what does work, I find, is one of two things which ideally we encapsulate both in a headline.

But firstly, the curiosity element.

So humans are wired to resolve open loops.

So a strong headline that creates intrigue helps people feel compelled to continue.

So I'd say something that drives curiosity, and you see it in so many headlines and swipe files and examples that perform well, is a sense of curiosity. Get to get them to continue to read.

And the second element is, I'd say relevance.

So the reader needs to instantly recognise that this is for them.

So it triggers sort of a moment of recognition where it's almost like, hey, where's the camera in my house? How do you know exactly how I'm feeling?

And so those are two things that, if you can do that well, your headline typically will perform much better and push people through to the rest of the page or the post or whatever you're specifically writing at this time.

So, you know, example would be, you know, if you hear a Local business owner wasting money on ads. Read this or what? Most online coaches plateau at 20 clients and what to fix first. Things that are really specific but also drive a little bit of that interest and curiosity through the lived experience.

Bianca: I love that. And while you were talking, we're talking about landing pages, you were talking about web pages.

We create so much content these days.

I feel like really every single social media post needs this kind of thing, doesn't it? I mean, and so how as a business, how do you constantly create in a way, new hooks? I mean, you and I both know that we have to say the same thing over and over.

But how do you say the same thing over and over in a different way?

Simone: Absolutely.

No, that's a very good question because obviously, you know, you do need that repetition often in order to not only have the touch points, but have it really sink in for your audience and reach the right people.

And so I'd be thinking about how you can approach the same thing from a different angle. So thinking of can you approach it from a problem standpoint. So there are frameworks like the problem agitate solution, that's one. And there's the IDA framework, so there's a few that you can kind of tap into that takes people through slightly different journeys. But I'd be thinking about the different ways you could approach it.

Could you talk about it from a really positive experience? Could you talk about it through the lens of maybe a really great and outstanding case study that you have? Could you talk about at it through that problem focused pain point lens?

And I think that that helps create variety. So you're not just saying the exact same thing.

And it helps to speak to people who may resonate with different things. Like some people hate negative style news headlines and marketing headlines are similar, whereas other people, that's an instant hook and sort of drags them in. So I'd be looking at that when working through your headlines and your hooks.

Bianca: Yeah, that's really fascinating because really, I guess every single piece of content, and we create so much content these days, every piece of content almost needs to go through one of those formulas to get that attention that this is like a full time job.

Simone: Well, that's why there's copywriters.

Bianca: Yes, exactly. That's why. Yeah, that's why you need to. Wow, this is really fascinating because yeah, I guess in a way we kind of need copywriters more and more because of the amount of content that we now create.

You also mentioned things like value propositions and like making it compelling because, well firstly, can you explain what value propositions are? Because some of my listeners might not know and then why it matters so much?

Simone: Yes, certainly.

So your value proposition, typically it helps to share with your ideal customer what you do and what you do differently and what you, how you bring value to them through your product or your service.

And could you repeat the question?

Bianca: Fine. Yeah, no, well, why does it matter? Because I guess a lot of us, a lot of people that I often mentor, they just dive into sharing what they know or kind of like I create this thing, can you buy it?

But they don't actually really have that understanding of what a value proposition is and why it actually matters. So that was the next part of the question.

Simone: Thank you. I focus too much on the first half.

So the reason that it matters so much in your marketing is, and this comes down a little bit to what I was saying at the start of saturation. And there's a lot of content going out and there's a lot of businesses who are competing for your customers time and attention.

And if you're not able to clearly concisely and compelling articulate what makes you the ideal choice for them, it muddies the waters and it makes it very easy for them to go with somebody else who may articulate it clearer even if you might be the better fit for it.

So I often like to use fitness as a really easy example. So if you run a fitness program, you're a fitness coach, that is such a broad strokes thing to say that you do.

And you might work with, you know, postmenopausal women with gentle stretching. You might work with 20 something year old men who want to get into the bodybuilding game. You might just be a little bit more of like convenience focused, you know, fitting it into your busy life or professionals maybe in their mid-30s.

And the way you articulate that and speak to them is going to make them again go, hey, absolutely, you were the right fit for me.

You are exactly the solution that I've been seeking for my problem versus oh yeah, well, you do something kind of what I need. Right. And so having something that is really compelling and really succinct and very clear that you can then utilize through your bios and your messaging and the way that you're talking and bring it back when you're doing your education side of things makes it clear that your audience knows that this is for them and

that what you do is what they've been looking for.

Bianca: Yeah, I love that. And I think and I'm pretty sure you'll be the same that we come across a lot of people who go, yeah, but I can help everyone.

You know, I can help those people too. And, but it's not about that, is it? It's literally just like you said earlier, when people have that realisation of oh, where's the camera in my house? Because I actually feel like you're talking to me because like, you know so much about me. That is when, that's generally when we are willing to open up our wallets and actually go, oh, yes, I need this, this is for me.

Simone: Yes. I mean, while we are obviously writing and communicating to the masses, it should never feel like you're communicating to the masses the best. Converting emails and posts and even pages feel like they're talking directly to you.

And so if you can kind of tap into that specificity, typically your content's going to perform so much better.

Bianca: Yeah, that's really having that emotional connection. And this is where I think obviously your psychology background would come in really helpful handy.

So like, how do we use that emotional connection? Inviting. Because I feel when I mentor clients I get a lot of resistance that they don't actually want to go there. They want to sort of stay vanilla and vague and in the middle.

But why is that emotional connection so important? And how can we do that in a non cringe kind of way?

Simone: That's a very good question.

It can be very tempting to kind of want to have a sense of being removed. But more and more, I've had so many conversations lately around this. People are wanting that authenticity.

They would rather have somebody. And even if it's a business that feels genuine, flaws and all, than a business that feels like, you know, you threw something through ChatGPT.

And unfortunately it's because a lot of people are starting to sound very similar in this age of so much content going out.

And so it is more and more important and I, I like to give the example of, you know, purchasing a car when it comes to emotional decision making because we like to think we're rational, we all want to think we're rational, but evidence really consistently shows that emotion comes first and then our log follows.

And so say, you know, you go to a car lot and you know, you really get your heart set on a car and there's probably something in the back of your mind, you may not even be aware of it, you know, that maybe it's a status symbol and you associate it with something.

It might be a. You've heard people talk about the safety of the car, and, you know, you're a new mom, and that's really, really important to you.

And before you've even looked at the spec sheet, you have this really emotional, visible reaction to something.

And then, you know, you'll talk to the salesman and you'll have a look at, you know, the sheet and all of the, you know, fuel economy and all the features that it has and pretend that, you know, you're buying it because of that and you're not buying it because, you know, the leather seats look really good and are going to impress your date when they come into the car.

Whereas the reality is we do tend to have that emotional reaction first. And so when it comes to your marketing, if you can tap into that first and then you back it up with, say, your credentials and the qualifications and the additional proof, and you know, how many items they're getting when they purchase this, typically you find that that is more likely to convert because they're buying the outcome and the emotional outcome far more than they're buying the actual product.

Bianca: I love that.

It's literally that case of, yeah, you have two different people.

One person wants the safest car, the other person wants the fastest car.

If you know who talking to you can really market talk to them that way. You know, the safest car on the market. I'm like, yeah, some people are going to be more drawn to that, too, versus, whatever.

The fastest car or whatever.

Simone: Absolutely. And if you're going for the vanilla, well, this car is nice. It's a nice car.

Bianca: I know.

Simone: It's like neither of them, pretty much.

Bianca: It's like, this is the car that will get you there. I'm like, yeah, well, don't they all.

Simone: Absolutely.

Bianca: That kind of thing.

Simone: Yeah. So being safe, often, while it seems like you'd reach more people,

often you end up alienating all of them, and they'll gravitate to whatever naturally aligns with the emotional response they are looking for.

Bianca: Yeah, exactly. I love that because. Yeah, I tell. I tell my clients that all the time. Well, I'm not a copywriter. I do not claim to be a copywriter, but the principle's the same.

Yeah. Messaging is super, super important.

Now let's talk about CTAs.

I know what it is, obviously, but I want you to explain, like, what a CTA is and what some of the most common mistakes are when it comes to CTAs.

Simone: Yeah, perfect. So CTA is a call to action.

It's exactly what it sounds like. It's when you tell Your audience what to do next.

So, you know, click here to download the ebook.

Watch my next video. Follow me, Buy my product. When you're instructing them to do something, that's your call to action.

And I'd say one of the first mistakes I see is giving people too many options at once.

So, you know, you're writing a post, you're filming a video, or. And you just, you want to cover every base because you know that people might be at different levels of readiness or they might be, you know, ready to do different things.

And this kind of goes back to trying to speak to everybody as well, which is why knowing who you're talking to so important.

But if you are instructing them to book a call with me or download the guide or join my email list or DM me, what happens is people do nothing because it gets overwhelming.

And so each piece of content or page or whatever you're working with needs to.

To do one primary job.

So if the job of the post is to get a dm, then, you know, the call to action needs to point towards that.

If it's to get them to the landing page, it's. It needs to get them to click.

So that's probably number one is muddying the water and trying to get people to do too much too often.

Bianca: Yeah.

Simone: And then the second biggest mistake is probably a lack of emotional alignment with what you've written so you can have a really clear call to action. That is, you know, click here to download.

And that's good. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but you can improve that.

Like, for example, click here to.

Bianca: Learn.

Simone: How to save X amount of money in what, X amount of weeks, whatever.

Bianca: Right.

Simone: Something that's really specific.

I didn't have a ready example, but, you know, book a call if you're ready to stop guessing what to say and actually get your message clear.

Or DM me the word audit. And I'll tell you where your headline is going wrong. Something that's really buys into the emotion that you've already set up and you've done all the hard work.

Right. You've set the emotion up and you've got people engaged and the payoff needs to kind of match that. And I find that that typically will get you better engagement with your call to actions versus just something that's a bit like, you know, click here.

Bianca: Yes, no, I totally hear you. It's. What is it? Microcopy, isn't it?

Simone: Yes. Yes. Correct.

Bianca: That's way more exciting than you click here to get instant Results, you know, or rather than. Yeah, click here for the free guide. But obviously I have to say a call to action is better than no call to action.

Simone: Correct. That's a good point. Have a call to action, please.

Bianca: That's usually one of the things that I see in terms of mistakes is like no calls to action.

Simone: No call to action at all.

Bianca: Yep. Information. I'm like, oh, great, thanks.

Simone: Yeah, good information. But what now?

Yeah. And in that case, you know, having something, even if it's, you're very education focused on a post and you might not want to be selling, particularly that moment, you can still encourage them to do something like follow you or free resources, or visit your website to learn a bit more about what you do.

Even if it's a soft seller.

Bianca: Yes. Having something or even engaging with the post.

Simone: Like comments.

Yep, absolutely.

Those ones can be really good if it's education focused.

You know, if you've talked about something, asking them to share an anecdote or an issue, issues can be really helpful because it just helps you feed more content.

You know, if you get all these questions on a certain thing, you know that that might be something that your audience wants to hear about.

Bianca: Yes, yeah.

Simone: Creates a feedback loop.

Bianca: Nothing is better than nothing. And yeah, a question is a call to action,

asking them to do something.

I love that.

Now, a lot of the content that I guess you as a copywriter would write would be conversion driven. As in, you know, you want someone to do something, whether that is to convert to, you know, sign up for a, I don't know, free fitness class or something like that.

So if for my listeners, if they are kind of looking at their content and they think, oh, I think my content isn't good enough and I'm probably missing out on clients, what's the first thing that they should look at?

Simone: It's a very good question.

I would say probably it's even a step back from the copywriting. I would just make sure that you are very clear on your offer.

And so if you are clear on what you're offering and who you are speaking to and what problem you're solving, it's so much easier to articulate it in your copy.

And so that is something that I often have to go back to is, you know, we'll sit with an offer that is muddy and, you know, sort of reaches out to everybody and doesn't articulate clearly, you know, that emotional buy in that and vague copy tends to really kill conversions.

You do need it to be specific. And that's been A thread that we've talked about so far through this discussion is that specificity works very well. So I would be looking a little bit at, you know, if you can clean up your copy around that.

And I would also be looking at, are you using jargon? And so that's just something I do like to call out because nine out of the 10 times I'll end up having this conversation where the client.

My clients are experts in what they do. Of course they are. That's why they're in their industry.

And, you know, like, I had a welding client and, you know, we were looking at keyword targeting and he listed all these really specific technical terms and types of welds and joints and specialized language.

And obviously he was correct. That is what he did.

But I said, look, what are your customers probably looking for?

And he went, oh, you know, welding, probably, probably welding in Tasmania is probably ultimately all they know. And so just making sure that, you know, your buyers are probably not going to speak like experts, they're going to speak like buyers. So if you have too much of the insider language or jargon, I'd like to, you know, see that sort of stripped back.

So those are probably, if you dial in that offer and that carries through to your copy and you avoid anything that's overly technical and speaking above them, those are typically really easy places to improve conversions, clean things up a bit.

And then that lets you dive into, like, your first line and your hook and tweaking the microcopy in the CTA and really adjusting it and bringing it up. But if you don't have those foundations, you sort of fall flat.

Bianca: Yes, I agree.

And I feel like that's where a lot of businesses often start is they kind of just go, oh, I am good at this and I do this.

But I also feel like they forget who they are trying to help and just diving back into your customer's perspective and yeah, I love that you're talking about jargon. I'm sitting here going, do I do that?

I don't know.

Simone: We're all guilty of it because we're experts.

Bianca: Yeah, we do talk about a lot of different things. That's why I actually wanted. That's why I said, can you explain CTAs? Because, you know, we talk about CTA and CPRs and like all these, like, you know, CPLs and all these.

Simone: Oh, absolutely.

Bianca: What?

Simone: Half the time people I speak to don't really understand copywriting in its own. So even things that you feel like might be very obvious, you know, sometimes do need to be stripped back.

Bianca: So, yeah, I love that. I'm going to take you on a different direction now. Oh, yes.

Simone: Okay.

Bianca: I want to talk about the elephant in the room. AI. Yep.

Simone: Okay. There it is.

Bianca: I know. Yeah, there it is. There's a lot of talk about, you know, AI taking over copywriting, and I know that's what a lot of people kind of think they're using it for.

From your perspective, what can AI do well, and where does, like, human insight still matter? Because, yeah, everyone's kind of like, oh, AI can do that. We don't need copywriters anymore. But I don't agree with that. So let's talk.

Simone: Well, AI can be a really, really great tool when you're using it properly.

And for me, I find that it can be most helpful when it comes to creating momentum.

So even for myself, if you're staring at a blank screen and you're a bit of a perfectionist, sometimes it's just. It's hard to get moving.

And sometimes it can be easier to do a bit of brainstorming.

Excuse me, structure, and just give a bit of that outside perspective to bounce off against.

So help you maybe think of a different way to frame it? We sort of touched on that earlier. You. You might have a really clear idea of your product, but you've run out of ways to talk about it.

It might be useful for getting some insight that you might not be aware of to current trends that are performing very well.

So it's.

It's almost more. At least the way that, you know, I would utilize it is more of a really helpful and nuanced research tool versus outright just writing it.

And the reason I caution against just using AI to write everything is as we are doing more and more AI and more and more people are utilizing it and relying on it, it is effectively watering down the authentic voice of each business.

And so everything feels a little bit more polished, a bit more generic.

It all has certain tells and certain cadences that you hear in AI writing.

And people are becoming more and more aware of it.

And so, you know, best case scenario, you sound like your competitor. Worst case scenario, you lose trust because your audience realises these aren't really your insights or your education.

And so I think AI is incredibly helpful, again, with ideas and conceptualising and sort of working through this.

But when it comes to authentic voice and strategic direction and those additional.

Bianca: Sort.

Simone: Of elevating your copy to feel really real and conversion focused, AI is not ideal at that.

And so I'd say if you're going to utilise it just outright for writing. It's probably better for content writing. So, you know, your blog posts versus, you know, your social media posts or your landing pages or something that is actually going to drive that conversion from your customer.

Bianca: Yeah, I love that.

I do think there's scope for it, but it comes down to actually being really good at training the AI and I think that's where a lot of people lack. They kind of just, you know, plonk a question in there that doesn't have enough context, it doesn't have enough background because I do think you can train it on your tone of voice and that.

But I think that's where a lot of people kind of, they, I don't know, it's like one of those things where you're not going deep enough. You probably just, oh, yeah, that'll do kind of thing.

Simone: Yeah.

Bianca: And that's when it gets sort of wishy washy.

Simone: Yeah, I get really annoyed at it sometimes because I've played with it like, of course it's something that's important to, you know, dive into and learn how to utilize, especially as it's becoming more prevalent.

But I will say sometimes I've trained models, I'll have my big project notes. You know, it's got a wealth of information to pull from and I'm finding that every couple of messages I send with it, it's defaulting to old patterns.

And so if you're very aware of what those patterns look like, you can adjust them and you can change them and you can, like you said, refine it and save yourself time.

In fact, I have a friend in the US and she's a copywriter and I know she uses AI and what she said to me is, well, she can use it because she knows what good copywriting looks like.

So she can adjust it where in, you know, potentially some of her customers don't. And so, you know, whether you think she should be using it or not is, you know, that's another debate.

Bianca: That's the whole difference.

Simone: That's a whole other thing.

Bianca: I think we all use it now and it's here, it's, it's not going anywhere. And I like that you said that. Like she knows what good copy looks like.

And it does speed things up. And look, I use it too, because I look at it and go, yep, that's what I would say.

Or no, but I'd say, but thank you, you know, chatgpt, because now you've given me idea of what I actually do want to say. Yeah, and, yeah, it's great for that. It is a bit of that sounding board, a bit of that brainstorming, and it does.

Simone: The writing partner.

Bianca: Yeah. Whereas, like, back in the day, I would, like, sit on the blog post for, like, three weeks because I wouldn't get back to it and go, no, that's not quite right yet.

And now it's like, hey, AI, give me like five different ways of saying this. And then I go, oh, I like a bit of that. And I like a bit of that. And then I still make it my own.

Simone: Correct. And you can leverage it if, you know, for example, you like a specific voice or tone. You can also ask it sort of right as that person. So there's a couple of really great copywriters in space, and every now and then I'm like, well, I'm a little bit stuck for this headline,

so can you help me, you know, come up with a couple ideas? I don't think I've ever used one directly because it's not. It's not quite right, but it gives you, you know, gets the ideas going.

Bianca: Yep.

Simone: Where otherwise maybe it wouldn't.

Bianca: I'm exactly like that.

Simone: Like a swipe file. Exactly.

Bianca: It's great. I. I'm working on a website at the moment and I told AI kind of what I was looking for, and I think it gave me like 20 different headlines and I kind of mixed and matched and went, no, that.

No, that doesn't sound right. But. Oh, I like that, but not fully. And yeah, in the end, gives you.

Simone: A starting point when you might feel stuck.

Bianca: Yeah, I like that. That's great.

Okay, let's wrap up. If listeners could make just one change to their copy.

And let's go with website copy, because I know there's drop copy copy this week that would have the biggest impact.

What do you think they should start with.

Simone: On website copy specifically? I'd probably be checking your hero section. So that's the first thing people say. Also, some see sorry, also sometimes referred to as above the fold, depending on how it's sitting on a mobile or.

Or a desktop? So the very first bit of copy that they see, does that do the job of informing and calling out your ideal customer? So does it speak to them? Do they have to scroll to the very end to who we serve before they actually know that this is for them and can help them or what you do?

So I would just pay a little bit attention to that. It really is the first thing it's called. It was called above the fold originally just for the your listeners because old school sales letters that came in the mail, it would be the first thing you saw before you opened up the page.

And so it's the very, very first thing that you see and that sets the tone. So pay a little bit attention to that. Do you even, do you have a call to action button there?

Do you have, is it cleaned up? Is it working?

Will it make people continue to look at your website and consume the rest of your content? Is it serving. It's not quite a hook, but effectively is it serving as that like really strong headline?

Is it it catchy and pay a bit of attention to that. And then of course I would also do exactly what I said before. Check for any jargon on your website.

That's the place where it tends to lurk the most.

Bianca: Yeah. And it can be there, but it has to have, it has to be in the right place. Usually like you would put stuff like that in like, like specification things and correct cues and correct the going.

Simone: It shouldn't be on the headline.

Bianca: No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. And the other thing, and this is where I often call people out. It's like, why does your headline say welcome to blah blah blah?

Because one, they should already know that they're on blah blah blah website and you're wasting space by saying welcome to. I don't know, that's like a really big pet hate of mine.

Simone: Very common.

Yeah, it's welcome to or you know, we are XYZ company.

Whereas that is premium real estate that should be used to address an issue or problem or you know, call out a customer.

Bianca: I love that tip. So everyone who's listening, please go and check your above the fold, your headline to make sure that you're actually not wasting it on saying welcome or something like that.

Yes. Because that is premium real estate. That is where you have that, that three seconds of okay, how are you going to make someone read further Correct.

Awesome. I often ask some personal questions too.

Simone: Absolutely.

Bianca: And one of them is what are you curious about right now?

Simone: The good question.

I actually, I actually spent my weekend diving into SEO and the way it is working now with AI.

So it's a very different way that AI systems interpret your positioning and so it needs different markers and different signals.

If you're writing blog posts, the way you would write it for Google is now different the way you would Write it for ChatGPT.

And so I went down this really big rabbit hole of everything we know about SEO still works, of course, but if you're specifically looking to target AI and be found when people are searching on ChatGPT for marketing agencies, know bakeries where people do actually use a lot of. A lot of it for researching. Now it's very different. And so that was inadvertently how I spent my weekend.

Bianca: Fascinating. I feel myself going down a rabbit hole soon.

Simone: Yes, it's very deep.

Bianca: Oh, I can imagine. Okay, I might have to park that one. But I'm very curious.

If you had an extra $5,000 in your marketing budget, what would you spend it on?

Simone: That'd be great just to have an extra five grand in the budget for our business specifically.

Probably looking at less digital media, which we do a lot of and is very much foundational for us, and looking at more like local targeting, you know, radio, et cetera.

Just to build a bit more of repetition, familiarity around more local.

We focused a bit more locally in the last 12 months, so that would be really fun.

And then of course, testing a bunch of offers and funnels is always really good if you've got the budget to test. So I've been privileged enough to work on larger budgets and you can test really rapidly and it's a lot of fun.

So I'd probably end up using quite a bit of it there.

Bianca: Yeah, I feel you're right there.

Yeah.

All right. Awesome. Well, that's the end of this week's show. If you have questions about copywriting mistakes or anything copywriting, head to northernpeakmarketing.com and I'll put that. Pop that in the show notes as well.

A really big thanks. Thanks to you, Simone, for coming on the show. I really loved this conversation. I feel like we could keep going, you know, talk copywriting more.

Thank you.

Simone: Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. It's been a great conversation.

Bianca: You're most welcome. And of course, thanks to you for listening. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe and leave a five star rating and review on itunes, Spotify or wherever you hear the podcast.

Your review helps others find the show and learn more about the amazing world of online marketing. And don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode on New school of marketing marketing.com where you can learn more about Simone, check out useful links, download free resources and leave a comment about the show.