How a sales ecosystem can help your business grow with Stacey Walker

In this episode of The New School of Marketing Podcast, I’m joined by sales expert Stacey Walker for an in-depth conversation on how building a sales ecosystem can drive growth for your business. 

We dive into the importance of developing a strong sales mindset, using storytelling to attract clients, and embracing connection-based selling techniques. 

Stacey also shares how understanding your audience through psychographics—not just demographics—can transform your sales approach. Plus, we discuss common sales mistakes small businesses make and how to avoid them. 

If you’re looking to optimise your sales process and boost your business, this episode is packed with actionable insights!

Find out more about Stacey: staceywalker.com.au

Connect with me

Website: www.newschoolofmarketing.com
Facebook: @newschoolofmarketing
Facebook group: @newschoolofmarketing
Instagram: @bianca_mckenzie

Learn from me:

🟣 FREE MASTERCLASS: Sell more of your online course with Meta Ads
https://www.biancamckenzie.com/masterclass

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🟢 INVISIBLE AD FUNNEL PLAYBOOK: A practical step-by-step guide to making a big impact with a tiny budget. https://www.biancamckenzie.com/invisible/

🟡 CLIENT ATTRACTION CODE: The secret sauce Facebook ads strategy for sustainable engagement, growth and better conversions. https://www.biancamckenzie.com/code/

🟠 AIMFUL ADS ACADEMY: Tools, resources & 1:1 support to attract more ideal clients and make more sales with proven, easy to follow Facebook & Instagram ad strategies for any budget. ...

Transcript

Bianca: Welcome to the new School of Marketing Podcast. I'm Bianca Mackenzie and today I am talking about how a sales ecosystem can help your business grow with Stacey Walker. Stacey is a passionate sales coach combining over 15 years of experience with a commitment to integrity and authenticity. As a leader, coach and founder of like and Swipe Media, she inspires businesses to thrive through innovative, value based selling. With her own sales technique called connection based selling. With multiple diplomas and certifications, Stacey is dedicated to help others amplify their income and impact with ethical and effective strategies. Welcome to this show, Stacey.

Stacey: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here today.

Bianca: I am super excited to have you here as well. Talking about sales, it's like one of those things that overlaps so closely with marketing, but yeah, like marketing sometimes gets like a bad rep, but I think sales gets even. Like, it gets it even harder.

Stacey: Yes, absolutely. And that's why I feel so passionate about teaching people how to fall in love with sales, because there, I guess as a general rule, as people think about sales as being that really persuasive, manipulative type of process when it doesn't really need to be. And I've been working in sales for a very long time now and have developed a lot of different techniques to help people fall in love with. Sales now primarily work with service based industry business owners to really help them solidify that sales process, get the confidence and the conviction that they need to really put themselves out there and just love selling, because that is the one skill I think everyone in the world needs to really harness and nurture their own natural rhythm of selling because it has an impact on every part of your life and your business. And even if you're not a business owner in your career, there are so many different facets of what sales actually has to offer in your life. So I'm, I'm very passionate about it. I could talk about it for hours. I know we gotta talk about specifics today, but yeah, I could, I could prattle on for a long time.

Bianca: I love it. I can hear that. And I love that you actually mentioned that you work with service based businesses mostly, and it just literally gave me a little light bulb moment of when you sell a product versus a service. I guess a product like, because it is often tangible, like selling to me feels easier because I can show you something. Whereas service based businesses is like, you don't always have that tangible, that easy to sell outcome kind of thing. And there is, I guess, a personal aspect attached to that that could make people nervous. That I'm guessing.

Stacey: Oh, no, absolutely hit that on the head. When we're selling a physical, tangible product, the psychology behind that is so different than trying to sell a service or a transformation or a result. So they are two very different things. And obviously, I'm very passionate about the service industry. I've worked in e commerce and retail for many, many years. So that side of things is slightly different. But a lot of what I talk about is specifically for those who are putting their magic out into the world, those transformations and delivering results for clients. And it's usually teaching people how to sell the non tangible that you see those light bulbs go off and they're like, oh, I have to talk about it in a particular way and share this in a way that really gets people into the mindset of that transformation, rather than just, oh, goody, I can have a product in my hand, or I can look better if I wear this thing, or this can help me functionally in the kitchen by doing this. So, yeah, there's a few different parts of promoting a service.

Bianca: Yes. Maybe we should dive into that a little bit more in terms of. Because I know you talk a lot about storytelling and, like, you know, the whole sales. Sales aspect of it. Yeah, maybe we'll just take that next step of, okay, well, how can someone get into. Into that sales section in a way that I guess has an impact but also feels good to them?

Stacey: Yeah, yeah. And look, it is going to be different depending on what it is that you have to offer. All of this advice is going to be pretty broad spectrum, not very specific, but yes, the mindset of being falling in love with sales is a tricky one. And the first step, the first foundation that I work with, with all of my clients in my sales ecosystem process is the foundational stuff around the storytelling, your brand messaging. But first and foremost, all of that that comes first from that process is actually the confident side of things. And the mindset around how you're selling and what it is that you sell comes secondary. So the mindset side of things, what I found throughout the years is that I can teach sales till I'm blue in the face, but if the person that has to do the selling, doesn't believe in themselves enough or believe in their offers enough, then that's where the disconnect really comes in. And I was actually just talking on my Instagram Stories this morning about building trust with your audience and how a lot of coaches will tell you all of the, you know, the tangible things of how to build a trust with your audience. But they don't actually talk about the mindset that comes first, about willing to receive trust and willing to trust others. And I feel like most of my clients that have come to me, that struggle with building trust with their audience, that's just a symptom. And the actual problem itself is that they themselves are quite guarded. They don't want to open up, they don't want to trust others. So there is this wall that goes up, and so that in turn then really results in them being able to. It's a bit of a dysfunction of being able to build trust with an audience when you don't want to trust or feel trusted. So it's kind of like this roundabout thing where, and it sounds bizarre, but that in itself is the thing that we work on first, is do you believe in yourself? Do you have the confidence and the conviction to really then show the world what it is that you want to do? And a lot of the time, the confidence is the big key player. And that's why I love working on that so much. And I have a free masterclass that I've delivered live. I've delivered it in person. I've delivered it, just did an online masterclass that I have like, because I feel that that has such a profound impact, impact on people's abilities to get their message out into the world. So confidence is always going to come first. The next part of that process is then really developing that brand story. And as you said, I'm very passionate about storytelling and how that has an impact on your business. And it is a skill that once you learn it, you can then put those skills into place in every facet of your life and business as well, through content, through the way that you deliver information in blog posts, in reels, in TikToks, in this, even the copy that's on your website. The storytelling plays such a big role in all of that. Recently I was working with a client who I asked, you know, write your brand story. Send it to me. I tend to ask people to think about when they're writing their brand story. Think of it as a Ted talk. How would you open up? Like, what would be your first line to get your audience engaged, and then how would you share that story in front of a people or beyond? And this particular client came back and had written her story. And there was, it was very factual, it was very to the point, but it wasn't storytelling. It was basically just like a cover letter for a job of why I think my audience should trust me and work with me was kind of the vibe that came through of it. We did a one on one session on storytelling and rewrote the whole story behind her brand and how she has come to believe in the values of her business and how she's delivering her coaching and the transformation was absolutely incredible. And I've asked her if I could use that as an example for people to see the difference of pre storytelling training versus post storytelling training.

Bianca: Yep.

Stacey: And the way that she invoked the senses, I use senses to bring into the story, reflection, anecdotes, you know, and really bringing people on a journey into the process of when she discovered why she's so passionate about what it is that she does. And it actually came back to this story with her grandparents about how they, you know, really instilled this value in her. And she was not even aware of it until we did this storytelling process. And now sharing that story, it's so relatable. Other people have these experiences with their grandparents saying the same thing, and it brings in the values of what she really believes in. So she's attracting people just really organically and naturally into working with her without even really promoting what her services are to the details of what you get at the end of it, because she's building that trust through that storytelling. And that is such a difference in a service based business.

Bianca: It's so powerful, isn't it? Once you kind of, like, unpeel that layer, I can see why people would struggle with that. Because a lot of people that are in business, yes, they start a business often from a passion or because they're good at something, but they're not. Like, they're good at their craft, but they're not necessarily good at the business side of things, because I think they struggle with the whole, I need to be professional. I need to be this. I need to be. But when you just have a conversation with them and you ask them to tell that story, like, it's just like you just, you're just a person talking to another person. People really, I think, really struggle to be the business person, and the person like that knows the craft or the trade or whatever they are doing.

Stacey: Yes. And again, that is the difference between having a physical product versus having a service based business where you are the person behind everything. So there is, it's so much personal connection and energetics that really play a huge role in how you connect with your audience that people aren't quite prepared for a lot of the time. And there are service industries where it doesn't matter as much, but a lot of the women that I work with, it is more of that personal connection and personal power and the energetics come into play. And, of course, that as the biggest learning curve for a lot of people is, oh, my story, my values, the messaging behind my brand. Another part of this process that I use with my clients is really working on the villain of the story, the enemy. And I'm not sure if you work on this with your clients at all, but the enemy is such a huge, important part of building a brand story as well, where we look at what are we fighting against? What is the common enemy that I have, that I can bring my clients and my audience in on this journey with me. And that's really the key part of creating a movement and building a community is having that common enemy. And, you know, for example, mine is just general bro sales techniques, the traditional sales techniques that everyone has been taught is standard. That is the enemy I'm fighting against and teaching people that power of selling with subconscious sales techniques. And I absolutely love it.

Bianca: Just to. Just to clarify this for everyone, when we talk about things like this and we talk about the enemy, we're not talking about an actual person. We're often talking about something you could be like, if you are. I'm growing product based business now. No, no, let's stay service based. Literally just being a cleaner. For example, the cleaner we used to have in Melbourne, she was very much about using specific products that are non toxic, like in know, and because she brought all her products with her non toxic. So, yeah, like, fighting that, you know, it doesn't need to be chemicals kind of thing.

Stacey: So, like, yeah, and there can be multiple facets to that as well. It's like, yes, there is the, you know, the poisons that we have in our home cleaning products. There's the time enemy as well, of people who work full time, who, you know, make money but don't have time to spend making their home feel beautiful. And they don't want that pressure of having to go home and clean everything. And then, yeah, there are all of these other aspects of what building that enemy can be. A lot of the time in the fitness industry and the health industry. It's that people choose that diets are the enemy and that as a health coach, you can teach people how to lose weight and how to be really healthy without having to diet. So there is a common enemy in every single industry, and you just need to find that and play with how you're going to work and get that into your brand story and make it really passionate. And people will be like, yeah, I'm fighting this, too. I don't want to diet. I don't want to have chemicals in my home. I don't want to have to sell like a sleazy car salesman to make it in this industry.

Bianca: I'm struggling with my enemy, to be honest.

Stacey: Oh, really? Oh, my goodness. We'll have to talk about this privately.

Bianca: Oh, no, no. I can tell you my. I wouldn't. I don't know. I struggle to say enemy because it is a love hate relationship. There's a balance. Part of my enemy enemy is organic social media, and I struggle with it because I can see the value of it. But at the same time, or maybe it's more the algorithm, it's like, yeah.

Stacey: So here is your problem with your confidence and your conviction in the storytelling here, without trying to do any coaching and put you in an awkward position here. But I'm hearing so much doubt and resistance. If you just claimed that of that organic social media is the enemy, you are so sick and tired of spending hours and hours developing content. No one's reaching out to you. You're a slave to the algorithm. You're trying to keep up with all of the changes that Instagram, Facebook, meta, TikTok, whatever, keep changing the goal posts. As far as algorithm, you can actually fight that enemy by utilizing the services of having a funnel and ADHD. Then it really just gets rid of all of that fear, all of those hours of trying, and you strike 100% of the time. Rather than just throwing a net out there and trying to catch clients, what you're offering is putting a particular lure. If we're using an analogy of fishing that has come to mind, I'm putting a particular lure on your fishing rod that is going to catch the perfect client 100% of the time rather than just casting a net out and hoping for the best. So just claiming that and saying that is the enemy doesn't mean you're 100% against it as such. No, it's just really putting that confidence and really understanding that these are the desires of my audience. They don't want to have to create three pieces of content every day and be showing up constantly being the face of the business and doing all of these things and you. Yeah. So claiming that really does change that, that narrative, and it, it builds this really strong conviction behind what it is that you do. So I'm, I'm strongly saying to you, like, just, just go with the enemy. Just go.

Bianca: I'm loving it, because, yeah, I do think people should create organic content, but then put some money behind it to actually get it, like, get it seen. So, yes, yes. Content is not the enemy. It's the flippant algorithm and just crossing your fingers.

Stacey: Yeah, absolutely.

Bianca: Yeah.

Stacey: I mean, I obviously teach a lot of organic sales techniques, and so for me, I can see the value in it, but I know the pain of people doing content without actually nailing the messaging, the storytelling, the enemy and all of that sort of stuff. That actually does create such a huge difference with organic marketing. And, yeah, I like one of my enemies with social media, for example. It's not my, my big brand message, but one of the enemies is. It actually is the fact that there are so many coaches out there that tell you that they've got the answer. It's this one thing and this one size fits all technique of building organic social media content and building an audience and yada, yada, yada, when everyone is so energetically different that you need to actually show up in your content and your messaging in a way that really aligns to you personally and the way you are excited to show up and sell what you do, there is no point me telling you that this one particular strategy works and trying to force you to do that when you aren't actually energetically aligned to be showing up that way. So every single business that I work with needs its own unique strategy and its own blueprint because the individual themselves are so different. It's just like fingerprints.

Bianca: Yes, I 100% agree with that. And I, you know, same goes for marketing strategies. There's no one size fits all.

Stacey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, sales, funnels and ads, like, there is a particular process and a, you know, don't reinvent the wheel when that process works, but the way you deliver that message and the way you show up with that, that's what really, really is the difference.

Bianca: Yes. Messaging and all of that is so, so different. I know that you talk a lot about, and, like, it's even your, you've created this process, connection based selling. Can you talk a bit about that? Yeah.

Stacey: Yeah, I certainly can. I'm quite passionate about this process that I have developed over the years. And it is purely from that point of, oh, people hate selling. And I discovered this quite quickly when I started doing sales training, is that people would roll their eyes and they'd be like, ugh, I'm not a natural salesperson. I don't want to be selling. If you are in retail, you're on the floor, you're in cold calling. That's, you know, that's a different thing. But when you're talking about your own services, again, this is where we're talking about this particular niche here. It is such a valuable process to fall in love with selling and be able to show up every single day and sell without actually selling. And I simplified in saying it's like subconscious selling, right? So it's actually really talking to your audience in a way that debates them. So you're basically energetically lighting a fire underneath them to go, right, I need this. I want this. This is exciting. I can experience this transformation. I can have these results in my life or my business. And then what you do after you've activated them is that you actually inspire them to take action as well. So what I mean by that is then they go and book your. Your offer, they join your program, they book your discovery call, but in that way that they're already sold. So you are actually establishing your authority, your trust, your experience, through content that doesn't just educate. And I, again, it's another enemy of mine that all of these coaches tell you, just create educational content and teach people that you're the authority. Teach them something, give them value, and they will come to you as a client. That doesn't actually work. It works for some people when they naturally know how to switch people on, activate them, and inspire them to take action. But a lot of people don't know how to do that naturally. So that process doesn't work. And what happens is people end up creating so much, much educational content that they're like, I'm doing all the right things. All of these other coaches and all of these other creators are doing the same content, and they're getting clients, but I'm not, and I'm doing the same thing. And that purely, the difference that I see when I'm auditing that is that you might be doing a lot of educational content, but you're not actually activating and inspiring people to create that connection with you and want to work with you. And, you know, there's the top of funnel content, the middle of funnel content, the bottom of funnel content that we talk about when we're creating content for social media. You've probably talked about it on the podcast before. I'm sorry, I won't go into that. But the connection based selling method is basically the way that you create top, middle and bottom of funnel content in that way that activates and inspires people. So we look at a lot of audience psychographics in that branding part of my process where we look at, okay, the brand messaging, the audience insights, their desires, their needs, their past experience, their values, how does all of that align? And not only that, we look at all of the possible objections as well. So you're handling all of the objections proactively in all of your content so that you're inspiring them to take action. They don't have any objections about what it is that you do. Part of my process is full transparency with how your programs, your offers, your one on ones, however you work, all of that is very transparent, including pricing. Hide any pricing behind a sales call. Everything is very upfront. And I know that some sales people go, oh my gosh, you would lose so many sales by not like having that price behind a sales call. But it's not true. I have so many amazing client results from this transparency. And what happens is that when you are switched on to your audience in this way, you have all of that information available to them that they come to you fully activated and inspired and ready to do the work as part of this process. I don't do pain points. I will never recommend doing pain point marketing, ever. Not on a sales page, not in content. It's just not something that I believe works. And I, you know, I've talked about that in a lot of my training before, is that when we're specifically targeting pain points, it's good for us to be conscious and aware of it from the marketing perspective. But do we need to talk about it in a way that is traditional in sales as pain point marketing? Absolutely not. Talking to people's pain points, we're basically keeping them in that mindset of this is your issue and we're attracting a lot of people who aren't activated to fix the issue when we're talking directly to it. So we flip them instead of pain points to be empowered points. All of this process, and it sounds very complicated, but it becomes so, so simple once you start seeing it in front of you and how it fits into your business. It actually means that people are really looking at your content, your website, your blogs, your YouTube, wherever you're putting your information and you're answering all the questions. It's very upfront. And it's a beautiful, natural process that if you want to have a connection call or a discovery call before booking with you, they come to the call, they want to work with you. So they're basically saying, I want to work with you, I want to work with you, I need to work with you. Can I book? And you're using that process more of a, is this an alignment on my end, not on the client's end? So it ends up being more of like, you know, you interviewed interviewing them to see if you want to work with them for the next six to twelve months in your program. And they're already sold. They're already really inspired by what you do and they just want to work with you. And so if you've got a process where people can book into your programs and offers without an active sales call, which is a majority of my clients, that just happens while you're sleeping, while you're away from social media, and it doesn't feel forced at all. And with that mindset of showing up, handling those objections, being a person who has the expertise but also builds that trust of that I got you vibe, that is really where you just start showing up every day and being like, this is what I have to offer in a way that doesn't feel pushy. And you just keep dropping links and telling people, join now, join now. So there is a process behind it. And yeah, one of those, those mindset things that I talk about with my clients, I had someone ask me one day, we were at an event and we both did presentations, and I ended up walking away with a whole handful of clients from my presentation. And they struggled. They didn't get any clients from that at that particular time. And she asked me, she's like, what is it about you that's different? I did a presentation, I gave them information, I educated them. They were all saying how amazing it was, but I didn't get clients out of it. And I talked about the, you know, this mindset and this energy around the conviction and the confidence about what it is that I do. And it's not cockiness, it's this energetic of that I've got you is the way I describe it. So you're basically energetically reaching your hand out to every person in your audience, and this can happen through reels and written content, basically just reaching that handout and saying, I know this is what you really, really want. I know this is the problems, these are the things that are happening in your business, in your life. But I've got you, after you. And I can guarantee you that you're safe with me. And that, energetically, is something that just, you build over time. It can be switched on overnight if you want it to be, but naturally, it just does happen as you have that experience and you learn how to showcase that in the way that you do your storytelling and your phrase and things like that.

Bianca: I love it. You just become magnetic. And it's not a sales call because they are pre qualified, they are ready to go. They have self identified that what you offer is what they need. And, yeah, I'm familiar with that, too. Usually when people get on a call with me, it's like just to see, you know, they might have some questions, they might just want to connect with me directly. But it's more about, well, am I a good fit to, you know, to work with you rather than you work with me?

Stacey: Yes. I love that.

Bianca: I think that is, it makes it easier, because if you're already creating so much content, you want it to be the right content. You don't want to. And I've been saying this for weeks now, you want it to be purpose over presence is what I've been talking about a lot. With content, there's no point in just having a presence. It needs to have a purpose. So having magnetic content, I mean, what more can you want? Like, really?

Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think that, you know, we are so tuned into seeing people with large followings and large engagement, lots of comments, and, you know, all of that as being a result of, well, they must be successful. And if you look at my social media, for example, like, I. I do have the particular, you know, processes in place and the way that I frame things and the way that I'm delivering things, I work with a lot of clients content. So for me, doing my own content, it's not that much fun. But the way that I do my content is that, yeah, there's not a, you know, a huge amount of engagement on Instagram. Cause I don't really use Instagram as a platform. My content is, you know, seen elsewhere, and I use a lot of other connection techniques. So you might look at that and go, oh, she doesn't really get a lot of engagement, so she must be getting a lot of clients. But the reality of it is that all of this stuff happens behind the scenes. There is so much that happens in the DM's, even on Instagram for new clients last week, and you'd look at my content and you go, how? What? How does that happen? But most of it happens in my stories and a lot of it just happens that people have seen my content and they dm in and go, oh, I've been following you for x amount of time. I keep seeing your content. Love it. This is blah, blah, blah. And they book with you.

Bianca: Yeah.

Stacey: And so I just, yeah, I want to say if you're not getting that engagement and you're not seeing that on the front end, then there's just some connection that you can work on behind the scenes to really transform that into sales and bookings for your business as well.

Bianca: Engagement and likes do not pay the bills.

Stacey: Absolutely not.

Bianca: Absolutely not saying, oh, yeah, you can have, you know, 100,000 followers or whatever and like not make any sales. So I would, yeah, like you, like you said, wouldn't even. I wouldn't even pay attention to that, to be honest.

Stacey: It's like, I don't tell, yeah, I tell my clients, don't look at that. It's, you know, tracking data and things as you grow your business and you're getting into a rhythm of things is really important. And one of the things that you can track is your output for creating content versus what the ROI is. And if you're not tracking that, you can spend so much time creating content that is meaningless and does not result in any connections and sales. But yes, just being able to understand that it doesn't have to look on the outside like you have all of this stuff together. I have clients who make a lot of impact with their business and they have less than 1000 followers on Instagram. But their audience is really engaged and committed and inspired and so they are working with them and they're constantly booking clients. It doesn't have to look like a huge audience to have any flow on effective success. So.

Bianca: Yes, yeah.

Stacey: Put your faith in the small numbers.

Bianca: Exactly. And especially if you are a service business, you don't need 100,000 followers. I look at a lot of places around our local area. Like, it's not a big area. Right. Like we live in Tasmania. Oh, you know, the population of it is not huge. We do get some tourism, but yeah, like when I see some social media agencies boasting about, oh, my clients real went viral, it had 1.7 million views. Like it's a cafe on the coast. How many of those views actually translate into paying customers? That's what I want to know. So yeah, cool. Your real spiral. But you might be closing your doors because you're actually not getting the people through the door paying, you know, paying for your food. It's not the case. Not the case with this kind of cafe, or at least I hope it's not. But yeah, it's like numbers. It needs to be the right numbers that actually have an impact.

Stacey: And people who want to go viral are missing a huge component of what strategy actually is. And, you know, if there are, like, if your goal is to become an influencer, then yes, like going viral, fantastic. But if you are a service based business, going viral can actually do a lot more harm than good as far as the ROI from social media. So, yeah, there's a few things to consider there.

Bianca: I love going into this kind of stuff. All right, let's talk about. Because, like, we've talked about all the bits and pieces, let's bring it all together. How can a sales ecosystem. Well, firstly, what is a sales ecosystem and how can it help your business grow?

Stacey: Yeah, so this is something that I have just personally developed overdose the span of the last decade. And it was actually a really organic process that this particular sales ecosystem of mine came together. And it was just an awareness of all of the moving different parts of business and what actually creates a really solid strategy and the foundations of a thriving business. And again, I have a sales ecosystem for e commerce and retail with product based businesses. And there's also the service based business side as well, which is something that, again, I'm very passionate about. So a sales ecosystem is basically just your blueprint of how you encompass every part of your sales process into a document or a strategy itself. And so my document is quite extensive. When I'm building a sales ecosystem for a client, and I do this in a few different ways, I have an intensive where we do this over three months, I have my standard process where we really build this over six months. And then I also have a hybrid experience as well, where I'm actually building this for my clients and doing all of the sales copy, building all of the automations and the funnels and everything for them, which is fantastic. And I love doing that side of the business. But what the sales ecosystem that I've developed is, there's three parts of the sales ecosystem that all businesses need to be mindful of, that they have got strategies and structures in place to satisfy each of these. Now, the first part of my ecosystem is your eminence. So that is the brand, that's the messaging, that's about your audience, insights and analysis, and all of the really just the core of what it is that you do in that process. And then the second component of that is connection. So this is the what you sell, how you sell and where you sell it. And this is where I teach people sales techniques and sales psychology, body language. We talk about connection funnels with all of the content that you can create in social media, websites, outreach, getting your media kit out there and all of those different things. And then the third part of that process for me is the automation, that's the systems. So that is then how you onboard clients, how you create a referral structure and how you build all of the processes behind your business to create more freedom for yourself. And that is a huge component. Freedom is my, my number one value in my life and in my business. And I want to create freedom for every single person and time. Freedom is at the top for me from freedom. So being able to look at a business holistically and say, right, you're losing this many hours every week by not having a process in place. We can develop that over time. So having your, your branding, the connection side of things, and then the systems and structures, when all of that comes together, it creates an ecosystem where you're just delivering your magic on repeat, you're attracting people on repeat and it becomes a really streamlined process. And so I see the difference from clients free sales ecosystem where they're constantly out there hustling, creating content, they're selling things and sending out PayPal links and then having to manually send emails out. And, you know, there is no customer journey in place. So they're just trying to put offers out into the world that don't really make a whole lot of sense and their audience is kind of confused. Like which one do I go into? Where do I start first? And so seeing the difference between them establishing a customer journey and then having the systems in place to support their business so they're not a slave to admin and algorithm and as far as even SEO searchability and all of that sort of stuff, um, you know, all of that just builds a really strong, solid business. And I love building ecosystems with people, but I love coaching people through the process as well.

Bianca: Yes. There's so much overlap in what we do.

Stacey: Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. And then once you've got all of that in place. Yes, marketing is a huge component of all of that. Yeah.

Bianca: It's like having your foundation, I call it your foundations, like you found out having your foundations in place. And I'm, I'm similar. I like going into businesses and go, there's an easier way for this and an easier way for that. Oh, yeah. Yes. Like spreadsheets. We can do that. This way, and we can do that this way. And there's so much that comes into play as well, like experiences for your clients and even for your non clients. So at the moment, I'm building out some, yeah, some email sequences for new members of something and I'm also building out some sequences for non members because some people do subscribe to newsletters when they're not members of something. I'm like, you need to turn them into members. You know, have a sales and then people that leave make have win back sequences for those people. And yeah, it's fun to identify all of those pieces, but it can be quite a process. Don't you find that as well? Like, it's.

Stacey: Yes, sure. And it sounds really complicated, but what the sales ecosystem is there in place is to actually grow and scale. So it sounds overwhelming, but I want to focus on the right things for the client that comes to me. And as I said, everyone is different and so we get overwhelmed with, oh, I've got to have all of these automations in place and I've got to do all of these things that actually happens really naturally as you build your business. The most important things to focus on in the beginning of your business is getting your clients clients, getting people to pay you for what you do. So depending on where people come to me in which part of their journey of business they're in, is where we kind of have to spend a lot more time on our focus. And if you are at the stage where you don't have your first ten clients yet, then we start really in those raw foundations. And my focus is to get you those first ten clients. I never recommend even building a free opt in until you're consistently making foundational income every month from solid client bookings. And I know that goes against what everyone else says, because how do you get solid client bookings without an opt in? But what I see is that more often than not, with an opt in, people spend so much time and energy building those, stressing about how the automations work or missing the mark with it completely that it doesn't actually serve its purpose. And so it's better to build that later, really, and just attract paying clients first and get that solid foundation in place of just getting clients. And then those things build over time. And if, you know, there's one piece of advice I would recommend anyone in business looking at right now is of course, like branding, messaging, all your audience. Psychographics are so key important. But honestly, if you kind of have an understanding of all of that stuff already, the next part, the really important part is that customer journey and making sure you have that mapped out so that you are not leaving gaps. You are really creating those touch points with your audience and building out an office suite that aligns with them, not just with all of these different ideas that you have. Because I see that a lot with my crazy clients is that they have all of these ideas and then they develop 20 different offers and none of it is in alignment. None of it makes sense. It's not a, you know, a journey in place. And so, yes, mapping out that customer journey is such an important part for a business because then you can really see it in front of, of, oh, I'm missing a gap here or my clients, you know, once they finish this, I've got nowhere else to send them and I don't have a referral system in place or, you know, an advocacy program. So it's just kind of, it's all just dying. And I'm just offering this one thing. And, yeah, so, yeah, that would be a big piece of advice for me.

Bianca: I really, really loved that. And as you were going through that, I was sitting here nodding my head, I think, and this is mostly for people starting out in business, I agree with creating an opt in. Like it's a distraction. I actually think that when you are starting out in business, and if you are starting out in business to have an income, to actually make money, because some people start a business and it's like it starts as a side hustle, so it's not as much pressure. So yes, you can start with, you know, opt ins and maybe digital products and all of that kind of thing. But if you are starting a business and you are there to make money, I would strongly urge you to offer a service at a higher price point. You know, like services in terms of pricing is higher than like an online course or something like that, and reach out to people. I actually haven't really had many of my done for you clients, which is my higher price point through opt ins or funnels or any of that. It's all been networking, like actually either physically or online, talking to people that needed that service. And I don't know if you see that as well, but I feel like some of that, like, ecosystem and like you need an ecosystem, but the ecosystem can be small or the ecosystem can be like super big.

Stacey: It can be very complex if we're talking about a business with lots of products and lots of clients and offers and automations, but the ecosystem starts quite simple and it grows with you and your business and you just add those moving parts into it. So it's not, yeah, it doesn't need to be scary, but the simplicity of just starting your business to attract clients is hugely important. And what I see a lot of, you know, mentors and coaches are out there telling you to create these opt ins that they're going to attract all of these paying clients. What the statistics actually say is that freebies, more than anything, attract people who are just fishing for information. They are not actively inspired to want to work with you. And so a lot of my clients do low ticket offers versus freebies anyway, because if you're having that energetic exchange of someone paying you, they're already more committed than just downloading something for free that's going to their inbox. They're going to have a look at it, maybe download it and look at it later. Never going to fill it out or print it out or you do anything else with it. So as long as it is a, you know, a really well thought out process in that initial part of your, your customer journey map. And the, the number one thing that I always say with any sort of opt in, whether it is low ticket or you do want to go down the free route, is that it has to handle the objection that people have to want to work with you. So that is the biggest thing. So if you're just creating an opt in for the sake of it, you might as well just have good time and energy out the window.

Bianca: Yes.

Stacey: So the main focus here is actually to do the activation, the inspiration, inspire people to work with you. And what I do with my clients is create an offer and opt in that handles the possible objections people have of working with you. And I had, for example, a mindset coach who had a particular psychological kind of program that they, they had the licensing for. And she kept saying, saying, like, my opt in is great. It's about handling this particular thing, but it's not actually resulting in clients. And I'm like, well, what's the biggest objection people have to spend? 4600. I think her program was on you. And she's like, oh, they don't believe in the program. And so I'm like, well, why aren't you teaching people from that opt in point of view of how they can actually build trust with the psychological point of how your program actually works and giving them the tools that they need to be able to think, oh, I see that this actually works and I trust in this process versus just giving them something about mindfulness and overwhelm and all of that sort of stuff, which means absolutely nothing to people, no. Versus yet teaching them something that they can actively use and builds that trust towards your offer. And what she saw is when she flipped her offer into that creation and that mindset, she started booking people pretty much instantly. I think it was like eight days from when she first shared it in her Instagram stories, the first client booking and paying in full. So. And she'd been sharing her other opt in for months and months and months and nothing was coming through at all. So it's just that perception shift and changing your customer journey to really be what exactly your audience needs. And a lot of the time we just miss the mark because we've only got our own eyes on our things. So we even myself, I have a coach, I have a mentor who looks at all of my programs and all of my offers and all of my things and gives me advice because, because I can't actively do that for myself. And that's where I say without spruiking coaching, it is such a valuable thing for a business owner to have. Doesn't mean that you have to go and pay for a coach or a mentor, but just having people around you that you can go to and say, hey, can you check this out for me, see what you think, what's your feedback? And really get another perspective on it.

Bianca: I 100% agree. I have a little mastermind group because I'm full of ideas all the time. I put my ideas through that and go, what do you think it is? And yes, a very honest feedback comes back with maybe not or maybe park it for a while. And so, yeah, because otherwise I'll be forever creating things. So I do agree with that. You need to have some business friends, some people that have your back will honestly say what they think. And sometimes a coach is good because having that monetary exchange actually does change the dynamics a little bit.

Stacey: So, yeah, and look, at the end of the day, we, I'm a certified business coach. I didn't just go out and say, hey, I'm a business coach. I have studied how to actually help people from the psychological point of view through all of the strategy and the implementation that I've learned and delivered over the years is, and so, you know, you build that, that point where it's not just about, you know, saying, oh, I'm a coach and I can help you. It's actually then, well, no, like, I actually know how I can help your mindset get around these things. And, you know, at times I've hated being part of the coaching industry because I kind of, I repel against it in a lot of ways. And there's a lot of yuckiness that happens in the coaching industry. But, you know, investing in yourself and your business and learning things, it's actually such a huge investment in your future. It's not just about the results and the ROI right then and there, what you're going to get out of that particular program, but it's, it's about the lifelong, you know, learnings and teachings and things. And sometimes you work with people that you feel like you've wasted money on, but at the end of the day, you look back at and you go, actually, I learned so much from that. And I even think back to my first sales program that I invested in. It was like $12,000. I was 19. I wanted to learn all the things. I wanted to become, like, the best salesperson ever. And at the time, it worked great, did so well in sales. But then I started to realize how manipulative and yucky all of those techniques were. And so I don't look back at that and think, well, I've actually unlearned all of that. It actually is the foundations of everything that I still teach to this day. I'm just teaching the reasons why I don't teach that way.

Bianca: Exactly.

Stacey: Well, still a good investment.

Bianca: Sometimes you learn what you don't want to do, and I think that's a learning lesson in itself as well, so.

Stacey: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. That's great.

Bianca: And, you know, what? You said that you sometimes, you know, the whole coaching industry you don't like. But if you think about it, every great person in the world has a coach. All the great, like athletes, singers, like, you know, like, they all have coaches.

Stacey: So they certainly do. And we do get a bad rap in the business coaching realm because, you know, it's not regulated and there is a lot of, you know, bad information out there and people that aren't, you know, necessarily coaching from a place where they've learned how to coach others, they're just sharing their experiences of what's brought them success, which won't necessarily work for a lot of people. So there is a lot of that. I've worked with a lot of other coaches who do, you know, falsify results and share untrue income statements and all of that sort of stuff, and I fired them over the years. Just like, it's not in alignment, it's out of integrity for me to work with those people. But there's so much of that happening that I've seen from the inside that I just go look like. No wonder people don't want to trust and spend that money on themselves. So if anything, I would say, you know, join some programs with a coach first and see if you like their vibe. See if their information works. See if you like working with them before you invest in a full program with them. And a lot of the clients that I work with have been either following me for a long time, so they know how I work or they've done my masterclasses and my programs and they can see how my things work. So there's a lot of trust that you can build first.

Bianca: And it comes back to what you said at the start, your vibe and your energy, energetic output. People. I think people are quite smart and savvy, but I think sometimes they don't trust themselves. So, yeah, trust your gut. If you don't have a good feeling about someone or it sounds too good to be true and you're kind of, like, not sure, maybe trust your gut. Yeah.

Stacey: Yeah. I mean, even, you know, my sister invested in a program where she was just fully sold on it. She was like, this person knows so much and they're selling this program and like, yeah, go for it if you feel like it's the right thing and got in the program. It was nothing like was advertised. And she was like, oh, this really, really sucks. Because I thought after all of these years of investing in programs and coaches, I thought this person knew what that was talking about. And it does happen, and it's just inevitable that sometimes we will get sucked into a bit of the hype. But again, that's where I talk about investing from ego. And a lot of people invest in programs and in coaches because they want the results. They want the ROI, they want the claim that I work with a coach rather than actually wanting the results in the long term. And the foundational side of it, there's. Yeah, there's a few. I mean, we can unpack this for an hour. But, yeah, it's, it's such an interesting industry. But, you know, investing in people who have invested in themselves is really important.

Bianca: Yes, I would agree with that. Like, not just walk. Like, you know, you could have walked the. What is it? Walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Stacey: Yes, yes, definitely. And, yeah, and it is that thing of if it's just working with someone because they've had success in business, then that probably is a red flag as well, of like, oh, okay, so they've had success growing their business. Am I going to listen to their advice. Sure, I can listen to it. Do I need to pay for it? Probably not. Yeah, yeah. Huge things to unpack there.

Bianca: I noticed so much there and I've made my fair, I won't call them mistakes. Like they were all steps along the way and every so often and I still, you know, think I'm going to fall into that, you know, oh my God.

Stacey: Oh, I'm going to sign up for this.

Bianca: I'm like, no, no, no, don't need to. You know, all the things already. Sometimes it's just, yeah, for me it's. Sometimes it's better to have like an accountability. Accountability, buddy. Like, to actually do the things rather than learn more stuff that I'm not. Okay. Because you have to implement as well.

Stacey: Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's, and again, it's nothing. Knowing exactly what's going to work for you personally and what you have, the, you know, the output value in of what you can actually achieve. And yeah, I say to people all the time that come into my Instagram DM's of, oh, I can get you 20 sales calls a week and, you know, 20 new clients a month. And I'm like, who has the energy to work with 20 new clients a month? Like, you're trying to sell me something I don't even want. And, yeah, like trying to just really understand the timelines that you have and the time that you have to invest in your business and really understanding that sometimes the strategies are so far beyond the output levels that you have available that it's just not worth spending time on.

Bianca: I love that you're saying that because, yeah, the Internet is just shiny, shiny place, social media. Like, there's just so many things. But when I. Yeah, it comes back to knowing who you are, knowing what you want, what are your goals and how are you going to service that? Because I think about that, I have two little ones. I, you know, it's business between school bells, so I won't, I can't do all that work. I don't need 20 sales calls a week. But yeah, I know, sometimes it just looks so shiny. It's like, I can grow your business, I can scale your business. But you know what? No, that's not always what it's about. It's about building a business that actually works for you. I think that is so more important. Yeah.

Stacey: And to be honest, my goal with my sales ecosystem is more based on a simple structure of attracting either your first ten clients. If you're coming to me as you know, someone who's trying to develop and grow a business or to solidify. If you come to me and you have got a consistent flow of clients, but it's just really tiring and you want to just optimize and rejig things is then okay. So how do we increase and optimize the workflow with the income that's coming in from that? But honestly, with anyone newer in business, I just want to get your first ten, you know, really good clients so that you can see how easy it is to create that flow of clients. Because once you've learned that, you just repeat that as often as you need new clients, you just show up and you do all of the right things. They just come and they're attracted to you. It doesn't have to be over complicated at all, and you don't need to worry about all the opt ins and all of the other crazy stuff in those beginning stages.

Bianca: Yep. I love it. I love it. All right, well, I think we could talk for hours.

Stacey: We could certainly.

Bianca: Well, we should wrap up. I always have two questions that I ask my podcast guests.

Stacey: Yeah, get going for it.

Bianca: What are you curious about right now.

Stacey: As far as marketing?

Bianca: Oh, anything.

Stacey: Oh, yeah. It's such a good question. I am really curious around this. I don't know if this is gonna come out in time for this. I'm really curious on the psychology behind Ray gun, the breakdancer from the Olympics.

Bianca: Yeah.

Stacey: I have been analyzing so much information from this, and I know that sounds really silly. I did a reel about what I would do if I was on her pr and marketing. I know. I watched it. Yeah. But then on the other side of that, I'm like, all of the drama and the conspiracy that's come out now behind that, I'm just like, this is just curious. And so I'm just, you know, wasting time but learning so much in that process. But the other part of that for me from the, you know, curiosity point of view, is just really understanding the dynamics of what's shifting in the search and discovery processes at the moment. Because we've seen such a huge shift in SEO and searchability that I am just constantly trying to listen and absorb as much information as I can about those shifts so that I can keep on top of that for my clients, because that's what they pay me for. They pay me to be the one that learns all the trends and changes in the industry and all of that sort of stuff. So for me, that's like, top of mind curiosity, learning all of the new SEO hacks and things to stay really on my game and that, that perspective.

Bianca: Yes, I love it. And I'm following you with that as well. Yeah. And if you had an extra $5,000 in your marketing budget, what would you spend?

Stacey: Ended on another really, really good question, and I actually do have something very much earmarked. I am looking. I've been in discussions with a film crew about doing some really high quality video promotional material for my business and what it is that I do. And so that is just a little bit under the budget. I would need to invest in that. And we're in discussions about locations and, and outfits and all of this other stuff that goes into that. But absolutely hands down would be investing in that. Personally, I think that that is something that I really value right now at this point in my business.

Bianca: Yeah, I can't wait to see it. When you do it.

Stacey: I'm a little bit scared. It sounds so hilarious that I'm so in front of the camera in public speaking, but I'm in video. Ugh. So I've been putting it off.

Bianca: Oh, I could. I think there's a difference between pulling your phone out and like, to a whole form production.

Stacey: Yeah, it is actually really daunting. So, yeah, we'll get there, but that would be cool. So.

Bianca: Well, I will pop all of the links in the show notes anyway. I will pop your free treat like the links to your free trainings in the show notes and where you can find.

Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. Start with the confidence masterclass, the layers of confidence. I can guarantee you you'll have some light bulb moments and things start shifting for you from, from there.

Bianca: I will pop it in there. Well, awesome. That is the end of this week's show. If you have any questions about sales and how to be more magnetic, head to stacyworker.com dot au. I will pop it in the show notes anyway, a really big thanks to you, Stacey, for coming on the show. It was so good to talk about all of this.

Stacey: Thank you so much for having me.

Bianca: You're welcome, and thanks to you for listening. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe and leave a five star rating and review on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify or wherever you head the podcast. Your review will help others find the show and learn more about the amazing world of online marketing. Don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at New School of Marketing where you can learn more about Stacey. Check out useful links, download free resources, and leave a comment about the show.